The Hennessy Venom Is Not a Production Car

"472CID" (472CID)
04/10/2015 at 11:32 • Filed to: None

It just isn’t. I’m not sure how some of these boutique car makers are selling cars, I’m pretty confident they’re not getting crash tested by the NHSTA or emission tested by the EPA. That’s not to say I’m upset that they’re squeeking by, but I don’t understand how they can sell cars but other, often more established, makers can’t. For example, Hennessey can sell you a Frankenstein 200mph Elise, but Lotus can’t sell you a Toyota powered Elise.

Now I’ve been told Hennessey Venoms are register as Lotus Elises, in which case the Venom is as much a production car as any of those turbo Vipers that Hennessey got started with. Any time you take a vehicle that was already produced, and modify it you’re tuner not a producer. That goes for Saleen, Ligenfelter, Brabus, Ruf, Roush, Shelby, Spoon, Mine’s, Tom’s, Masonary, Alpina. There are exceptions (Saleen S7, Ruf CTR3) and grey areas, but I don’t see the Venom as one of them.

DISCUSSION (42)

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:34

Yep, it's a Lotus. Technically, RUF are considered a separate manufacturer by the German government and not a tuner, but I don't get why. Saleen does (or did) make their own cars from scratch, but yeah. A Saleen Mustang is still a Ford.

HammerheadFistpunch > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:35

depends on your country. RUF is considered a manufacture in Germany, but they are all modified Porsche. In any case, why complain that we can legally buy a 1200 hp "elise"?

Party-vi > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:35

*Exiges. They're apparently registered as modified Lotus Exiges, which are certified for sale in the US.

Also YOU TAKE BACK WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT RUF AND BRABUS!!!

Mattbob > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:35

yup.

bob and john > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:36

the different between the venom and a brabus or soemthing is that the venom actually modifies the whole chassis of the lotus. venoms are WAY longer then a standard elise.

So to me, it is a its own car. Dont see how it can get registered as a lotus elise.

also, saleen made the S7. So they are a production company as well.

macanamera > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:37

I mean, it's clearly not. Anyone who argues the point is confused.

472CID > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 11:38

Germany also calls 4 doors coupes, so I can't take everything they say at face value.

And like I said, I'm not complaining that these cars are sold, rather complaining that not everybody can sell small batch cars like this.

HammerheadFistpunch > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:40

No I hear you, on the Germany "we don't into logical names" and the rest.

472CID > Party-vi
04/10/2015 at 11:42

I could be wrong but I think the last model year for the US Exige was 2011. Most likely Hennessey is selling hacked up 4 year old British track cars, which themselves have been face-lifted and tinkered with to the extreme.

djmt1 > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 11:42

They aren't modified Porsches. RUF buys various components from Porsche and assemble them in their own way. They are effectively building their own versions of Porsche under licence in contrast to say Brabus or Alpina who buy a car and then modify it. I believe the Venom and the Telsa roadster for that matter are assembled like the RUFs.

HammerheadFistpunch > djmt1
04/10/2015 at 11:44

Right, its a mater of legality ans semantics. The venom is just as much "manufactured" this was as is the RUF. In either case, they are standing on the backs of giants.

Sam > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:44

Yes, because this is just a tuned Mercedes -

Kinja'd!!!

And a don't even get me started on the amount of things RUF do to their "Porsches". (Hint: They only share absolute basic chassis components)

djmt1 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
04/10/2015 at 11:44

Ruf assemble their own cars under licence from Porsche as opposed to the others who buys the cars from manufacturers and then modify them.

BigBlock440 > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:45

Shelby and Saleen have their own cars. I'm not sure if you're saying they're not producers at all, or that their just their modified stuff isn't considered production.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 11:46

The Alpina B7 (E65) was built alongside the normal E65, so I'd say that's not a tuner car either.

Party-vi > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:47

There are still Lotus dealers in the US, as long as they can get their hands on an older Exige that it's cool to sell them. They've also got the Evora they're selling too.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 11:52

RUF gets their own VINs, Hennessey uses Lotus VINs.

Klaus Schmoll > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:52

Alpina IS a carmaker. Their titles say "Alpina" not "BMW". They got awarded this privilege in the 70s when they helped BMWs racing division.

If we continue using this logic then a Henessey is just a modified Lotus.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein
04/10/2015 at 11:58

Thats more a legal issue than a technical one though.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 11:59

Alpina and RUF are classified as carmakers though, because the amount of work they put into a car goes beyond simply removing some parts and bolting on new ones. As far as I know, they start with a bare shell, a process known as Body-in-white. Then, they attach components they manufacture themselves. Cars like the RUF CTR3 have the frontal shell of a 997 but the similarities end about there, because the entire rear end is a totally unique design. So much so that I thought it was actually based off a Boxster.

Kinja'd!!!

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
04/10/2015 at 12:00

Because cars like the CTR3 are not standard Porsches.

Kinja'd!!!

Sunshine Supercars > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 12:01

Agree 100%. The Venom is a tuner Lotus, and not even a fast tuner Lotus.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 12:04

It's pretty technical for the CTR3 though - it's got the front shell of a 997 and...that's about it. The rear is an entirely unique design and construction.

Kinja'd!!!

((I've posted this picture three times already I'm so lazy jeez))

HammerheadFistpunch > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
04/10/2015 at 12:05

yeah, but let be honest...the same could be said for the Venom. There is very little "lotus" left in there.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 12:09

Which is why I'm surprised it's still registered as Lotus, considering the amount of work done to it. I'm not familiar with the Hennessey's method of assembly though, maybe that's the difference. If Hennessey starts with an existing Lotus Exige and then strip it down and modify it, then it would make sense it's still registered as a Lotus. Meanwhile, RUF do it "body-in-white" style, i.e. Porsche just provides the bare shell and little else - basically not a complete car.

HammerheadFistpunch > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
04/10/2015 at 12:11

The reason Hennessey does it the way it does is because its a way to skirt manufacture laws and avoid crash testing, safety standards and emissions.

472CID > BigBlock440
04/10/2015 at 12:13

The Saleen S7 and Shelby Series 1 are exceptions, that's why I said there are exceptions and grey areas.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 12:14

Ah ok, that makes good sense.

Well, not that good really. Not if you're an owner and you have a crash.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 12:26

You can take anything they say at face value. My clutch kit has clutch kit written in a bunch of different languages. Want to know what the German one is? KUPPLUNG KIT! Want to know what they call meat? FLEISCH! Obviously it's all in all caps because it's German - the angriest language in the world.

Roadster Man > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 12:29

Here's the real question: Who cares?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > HammerheadFistpunch
04/10/2015 at 12:34

It makes me wonder - when registered/insured, is it insured as a Lotus?

HammerheadFistpunch > BaconSandwich is tasty.
04/10/2015 at 12:38

Im sure it is, because it has to be.

472CID > Roadster Man
04/10/2015 at 12:43

Bored people at work trying to distract themselves from their jobs? Not that I'd know anything about that...

AM > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 13:05

You would think they need to be compliant with all US regulations. Aston Martin isn't considered a mass production company in the US and not too long ago the feds were trying to give them shit over the lack of a B-pillar.

Sir Classy III > Klaus Schmoll
04/10/2015 at 15:31

Yeah I'm pretty sure that Alpina gets them from BMW before they are finished or something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Klaus Schmoll > Sir Classy III
04/10/2015 at 16:05

You are right in that they get the shells from BMW, but the cars' papers say Alpina. So officially they are Alpinas. Alpina is a registered car manufacturer, unlike Hennessey.

Roadster Man > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 17:13

As another bored person: It's totally a production car!

Yes, they took an Elise, but they stretched and re-engineered the chassis, changed every single body panel, and shoved an obscene engine in there and managed to keep it drive-able. I've seen one in real life, driving down the street, with normal tags... I challenge you to argue that it's simply an Elise with a big engine and a widebody kit. It's so much more than that.

For better or worse, it was designed to take down the Veyron for "top speed production car." The Veyron is officially done at 450 units. Your only real argument is the Elise base, which I find a weak argument with all the changes done to it in-house by Hennessy. I'd put RUF cars in the same category as the Venom. It's a RUF, not a Porsche in my opinion.

The oil Sheikhs are already lining up to place orders for the Venom... I bet Hennessy hits the Veyron number of 450 Venoms sold. Even if he isn't making much money on the Venom, the advertising will boost his business reputation of making cars balls-out fast. I'll be happy to eat my words if the Venom goes bust, but I just think it's so cool.

Sir Classy III > Klaus Schmoll
04/10/2015 at 17:47

According to the almighty Wiki the Alpina parts are installed on the production line and then the cars are shipped to Alpina for finishing at least for the B7. The engine for that one apparently is built by Alpina and then sent to BMW who installs it on the production line and then sends the whole car to Alpina. I'd be interested to know if all the models are done like that or if they just like you said are just shells that are shipped. So then what is installed on those at the factory? I cant imagine that they don't install things like the wheels and other various parts that make it possible to ship them. It would in my opinion be rather expensive to install temporary wheels and such just to get them to Alpina rather than just having Alpina send all the important bits to BMW to do.

kanadanmajava1 > 472CID
04/10/2015 at 19:07

I agree. I even go so far I'll say that Hennessey Venow doesn't even exist. If it's registered a Lotus Elise it is a Lotus Elise. It might be a highly modified Lotus but if you are not going through with difficult procedures that real manufacturers have to go you don't have right to go calling it as a production car with its own brand.

I haven't heard much good about this Hennessey guy. It's surprising that the company is still operating. There are several stories that customers outside his state have been badly ripped off.